It's because you try to use short-range weaponry in a medium range engagement. The boost need to be to rails, the solution is not to give blasters more range. I'm a t2 large blaster pilot myself, I use them on multiple characters regulary, I love them, they are ******* awsome and really powerful. If people stopped trying to use blasters in medium- to longrange envinronment, and if fails/rails actually worked, this would be a non-issue.

Lasers are a medium range weaponry. Projectiles fight in falloff, they don't do their EFT damage, they usually do 40-60% of that in a regular fight. Blasters do their full damage IF they get in range. Rails on the other hand, are underwhelming. No alpha, poor damage, everything.

Right, maybe you need to learn fitting and using pg implant. this "without weapon racks" fitt have mwd,web,scram,cap booster too, crap electron blaster with 813 dps (overheat+drones) and 1600 plate.
Oh wait 813 dps not enough for you, but after patch u can using ion guns over electrons.
I think this damage not bad with smaller guns.

Second one, another fail.

Tempest have 820 dps with overheat and standard fitt, megathron have 1124 without overheat.
So, what will be win in short range fight ?
A mega melting easily a tempest in a short range fight.

3rd
Share brightness ? Try to read what i wrote. Scram range/lvl bonus for the gallente ships.
Thats better idea than a "I win" speed button just nerf something else because someone like crying.

"You know what's the problem of fitting the shortest range weapon system? -no you don't."

Do you know what i'm thinking ? You are a prophetess who know my knowledge.
But vaga fitted with webs is so rare like a nano deimos. But do you know, how can beat a webabond. :D

Realy i dont want gallente change. What i wrote ?

"Need change, i want flight with most gallentean ship not just with arazu,thanatos but brutix,eos,deimos etc too ,but fastest gallentean ships in game is a fail."

I want, but i dont want stupid idea like yours.

couldnt agree more

Realy? Many pilots want to blaster to i win button.
Just see their ideas +20-30% damage with new tracking,with new pg balance wich has enable better guns, with fastest gallentean ships, with + drones and drone damages simultaneously. LOL
They do not take into consideration what is the reality. + Drones ? CCP wont create more lag, when they want to decreasing the drone numbers in game.
Armor rig penalty removing ? When CCP decreased the speeds because their game engine cant handling fast speeds.
Realy nice ideas, but this players using their brains ? When CCP remove rig penalties all ship will be faster, faster ships will be more faster than slower ships. This armor rig idea help for gallentean ship when a faster ships with trimark rigs will be more agile and faster than blaster ships ? Smart idea.

Others want fastest ship with frightening damage in game while they want other ships nerfing. LOL

Crying about minmatars, but i dont know they why didn't cry when speednerf came and no one flew with matarian ships when everyone flew with amarrs ? All right nerf matar and no one will flight with them again, because amarrian ship will be killing them in short range and from afar. Plus idea give beside the nerf to gallentean the fastest ships. All right check it out what will happen, when minnies can't fight against amarrian and they can't fight against gallentean, because they will be slower they lost their ability the hit and run tactics, but in short range fight a megathron damage over + 30% than a tempest. But we may compare it the deimost against vagabond too. What is the matar advantages against other races ? Their speeds and which ship has faloff BONUSES because they should fight from afar. But when they lost their speed and range advantages, they will be crap to using them.
This fastest ship idea idea put another race to hell again. You just create an another problem.

No way. Finaly when the amarrian and matar ships fine, you just want to nerf matar, because you want powerfull, better race than over all (I win button) and create ships of race to the unuseable again.

That's why i said, cleverer changes are needed. Better web range or scrambler ranges for gallentean ships a little range bonus for guns. Better scram or web ranges help to them catch from faster ship. They would be using their mwd when enemies can't. Thats help for blaster ships move to short range.Decelarating enemies from farther range while blaster ship can using his MWD. That's enough advantages to help decreasing their range against faster ships and moving to blaster range what melting the enemy ship fast.
Plus a little fire range buff should be help against farther ships which want to fight over scam range and trying to dictate the distance. Or other acceptable buff, but dont put other race again where are the gallentean race now.
A didn't tell it, not need hybrid and gallentean ship changes, that's must, because gallentean race almost unuseable. But need wiser choices than stupid ideas. if this idea would come true, the gallentean and amarrian would be overpowered and minnie race would be crap again. So you would create a similar situation as now.
Which better 3 playable race ? Or same situation as now, with two playable and one unuseable race ?
Just thinking about it.

Agreed, other solution than agility could be longer veb , scram ranges.
Let give blaster boats bonuses for web and scram range. Like fully bonused and overheated scram/veb could reach up to 20km . Also small tuning to tracking, range and dmg.
The point is to control close range, not needed huge buffs for speed, or optimal.

THIS is starting to sound like the only true solution.

I like your "IF", because it's the whole problem.

From what I can say right now:

Tank : Talos vs Tornado: Tornado -generous mid slots has usual makes it almost unbreakable by a single Talos

Speed: Tornado hands UP

DPS : do I really need to say 800mm or 1400mm Tornado hands up?

So, the tactic when you fly Gallente is to bring 10 probers in the system praying one of them gets some static point and hope you land just on top of them -->

There's no reason to fly it vs Tornado with actuall SISI build

Read back what i wrote before. Need a little range buff for gallentean ships too, not too much but they needed.
CCP changes start was fine but not enough. I think the speed and agility buff was good thinking, but need a littlebit better changes over 5-10m/s speed, but dont need create those gallentean ships to fastest in the game. The little tracking and fitting buff is fine, but i think thats idea need a littlebit change. Need more CPU because less CPU for guns decreasing the Weapon Upgrades CPU bonuses too.
Deimos need more PG.
Need rethinking the almost all gallentean ships. I told, change their bonuses and give to them scram range bonuses/lvl maximum to 20km with the best faction scrambler. (or test what is the best range which is useable but not overpowered)

A mega have 4.5 optimal + 13 falloff with neutrons. Need a little buff 25% to optimal is very short buff, thats changed to optimal to 5.725m,but i think thats acceptable. (null 11km would be change 13.75km)
Dont forget, a 800mm guns optimal is 3km with short range ammo, and 6km with barrage.
This is why i never understand the crying peaoples who tell us, "i dont want projectile from my blaster"

So, the falloff change need shorter range as AC.
Maybe 50% acceptable for falloff too.

Antimatter 13km falloff would be change to 19.5km, and null ammo fallof would be change from 16km to 24km with this changes.
Lower falloff than AC:

Null vs Barrage: 24 vs 32 (falloff) (ships without falloff bonuses)
but longer optimal:
Null vs Barrage 13km vs 6km (optimal)

13+24=37km vs 6+32=38km at optimal+1x falloff

I know at 2x falloff the range is changing significantly but dont forget blaster have better damage and over 1x falloff range the damage decreasing the significantly too.


Let's see with short range ammo.
Longer optimal:
Antimatter vs EMP: 5.725km vs 3km (optimal)
Shorter falloff:
Antimatter vs EMP: 19.5km vs 24km (falloff)

A think this changes with a little better speed changes and with scrambler ranges would be enough to balancing the blaster ships.

Rails: I told before. 10% damage wont be help for rails, at least need +10% ROF too, because they have the worst alpha. So if they have littlebit better DPS than other guns wont be unbalancing the game.

Gallentean Commandships:
CCP created the scramblers after speed nerf, their recon have scrambler range lvl/bonus, but other race have scrambler gang bonus warfare command ships. This is logical ?
I dont think so. Gallentean commandships is unuseable, they have maybe just one useable gang module. Change the matari CS scram bonuses to web+targetpainter bonus and add the scram bonus to the gallentean commandships.
This is just the first step which needed to make useable the gallente command ships.

4 could be done if:
A) it would be a huge boost (30%+) and
B) they nerfed down range even further, and
C) made gallente ships more mobile.


blasters themselves should have near zero ability to project damage. that should be the ship's work.


also, the things that blasters are "already good for" atm are using a vindicator to run incursions.

station games are really quite "lol" if you think about it, and that's really more an issue of docking/undocking mechanics. fix that well, and station games are gone.


edit: also, frigates should be exempt to these changes. frigate-level blaster ships are already quite good.

Who needs blasters?

From another thread and for those who haven't seen it already, OC it's the current SISI build and it's not officially announced it's the one going live on TQ, but have fun watching it.

Slow down.
Engage your mind.
Think about what people post before making a conclusion.

Why is it so LOL?

Go ahead, answer the question...

A Rail-Brutix could never kite an AC Cane because the AC Cane is so much faster, and more agile, that it makes it impossible for the Brutix to maintain range.

There's the problem.
Ok, so how do you fix it?

Change rails?
That would probably work, but the rails themselves aren't the REAL problem.
The real problem is that the ship you're fitting them to isn't fast enough or agile enough to kite much of anything.

So what's the REAL solution?
Make rails viable by making the ships that fit them fast-enough or agile-enough to kite.

Does that make sense?

This is purely hypothetical of-course but...
If each medium hybrid turret gave a 4.25% boost to speed, then a Rail-Brutix would have enough speed to kite an AC Cane, and a Blaster-Brutix would have enough speed to get into-range before it's too late (sometimes).

An unusual fix? Yes.
Viable? Looks like it to me.
We're just brain-storming and discussing here, and I think this is worth discussing.

The problem with your example Sydney is that using railguns is not a virtue, you use them for missions because you have no other choice if you want to have some range!

Railguns have to complement blasters just like how short and long range weapon systems of other races do, meaning they have to be useful and be able to project reliable damage from the range where blasters become useless.

In my opinion railgun "speciality" would be their extensive engagement envelope from ~28km to 100km, the current damage considering the +10% buff is about right, but improved tracking is needed.

OK i guess i have to say it again why use rails when you can use the much better arty or autocannons buffing the ship isnt going to make the gun any better

Edit: I wish people would read past posts because this "make the ships faster" is becoming a dead horse

Read my post again. The original is on pg.50 thread #989

I suggested adding a speed bonus to the GUNS not the ships.

If fitting hybrids made your ship faster, then the speed/agility problems that plague Blasterboats AND Railships would be reduced greatly.
If you cause the GUNS to buff the speed, then hybrid ships would still be slow with ACs or arty or lasers fit.

As for (med) rails, if they gave a speed bonus to the ships that fit them, then they would be a very viable kiter for that "middle ground" between ACs and Arty. ACs have better tracking and more dmg at short-range, Artys have more alpha and better range, but worse tracking.

IMO rails aren't broken, it's the ships that fit them that can't maintain-range vs an AC ship, or close-range on a Arty ship.
Combined with the up-coming 10% dmg boost to rails, and supposedly there will be a slight trackin-boost, this should make Rails a useful PVP tool.

Obviously, for each fit, their should be a counter, so for above said engagements, chances should be as close to 50/50 as possible.

I hope they change the sound for 425mm rail guns. They don't sound like they're launching projectiles across a couple hundred km at hyper velocity! They sound like peashooters. The heaviest medium rail guns sound bigger.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

I'm sure this was probably mentioned somewhere in the 50+ pages here, but....


Do you really want to give a speed and inertia buff to the Falcon?

It's not flown like a blaster boat. It sits at range from a fight and jams people to hell.

So now it can sit at range and kite a brawl even better?

As a pilot that loves to kill off enemy ewar boats in a vaga, I don't like it.

And if you're going to show love to the falcon, why not do the same for its Tech 1 brother, the Blackbird?

Please pull the falcon off the list of ships getting a speed and inertia buff. or at least explain the rationale for the buff on the forums.

thanks.

If you want i will show you, how much better in short range a Blaster than AC without any paper blabla.

Fully support the laser-caldari initiative. Make it happen ccp!

This is something I was also thinking and support. Sure, blasters can melt ships at close ranges, but that doesn't matter if those ships can break away once you engage them. Maybe gall ships shouldn't have the highest speed, but they should be able to stay on an enemy once they are already there. Blaster gall ships should also not be penalized for doing what their ship is meant to do, get in close.

By introducing a resistance to webifiers to Gallenete blaster boats they would not trade spaces with Minmatar ships in terms of speed. They would still have to manage to get in range first. But this would also allow them to keep up with ships attempting to run/kite once already engaged at close range. It would also prevent their weapon system from working against them as they do now through forcing them to get within web/scram range. Whether to add a set resistance or a per level one, that would all need testing to determine, as well as to which ships it should apply to.

As an example: CCP has released the Talos supposedly as an anti-capital, anti-battleship vessel. One inherent problem with this is that once the Talos gets in range of the target, it becomes webbed and scrammed, thus nullifying the speed tanking aspect of the ship class. Sure you can stay outside that range but then you reduce your damage as well as the angular velocity, once again making the speed pointless. At the same time the battleships and capitals you are attacking are releasing drones and/or fighters.

The biggest part to take from this change would be that you wouldn't be buffing blaster damage but only their ability to apply that damage once they are within usable range.

Do something with that ccp cant you see that ppl are really pissed ?? Yoo Soundwave think a little bit more about whole game not minis Or maybe you should switch your character to gallente to show gallente players some respect coz they was waiting too long huh ?? Nice idea ??? Ccp changed Or not ??

Then what's the point of having a hybrid subsystem on the Tengu?

a 75% tracking penaly does seem excessive

If one has 1.8x the range, than at optimal one needs 1/1.8 = 0.555 x the tracking speed to have the same hit quality as before.

I would like to see the long range T2 ammo for beams, rails, and arty have a 0.56x tracking multiplier instead of a 0.25 multiplier.